How to Choose an Agency to Get Your Brand Cited by ChatGPT

Editorial disclosure: Cited Conversations is published by Ringmaster. Casey Cheshire, Ringmaster’s Founder & CEO, hosts this conversation. SCAILE is a commercial partner of Ringmaster. This page is a recorded expert interview, not an independent ranking or endorsement of SCAILE or any other agency. The answers below are Simon Wilhelm’s recorded statements, each linked to its source timestamp. Conflicts policy ↗

Answers are transcript excerpts, each labeled verbatim or edited; question headings are written by our editors.

Recorded expert answer All answers on this page are recorded expert statements, not editorial content written by Ringmaster. Conflicts policy ↗

Transcript checked against source audio by Kristina on October 10, 2026. Factual claims are Simon Wilhelm’s views, not independently verified. Where we could not verify a specific claim, an editor’s note appears under that answer.

Host Casey Cheshire, Founder & CEO of Ringmaster, talks with Simon Wilhelm, Co-Founder and CEO of SCAILE, about why brands fail to appear in AI answers, the technical and intent gaps behind AI visibility, and how to measure whether AI search visibility is actually driving revenue.

Published September 30, 2026 · Last updated: October 14, 2026 · Listen to the full episode ↗

Download transcript (.txt) · Subtitles (.vtt)

Guest Expert: Simon Wilhelm, Co-Founder & CEO, SCAILE — a commercial partner of Ringmaster. Host / Publisher: Casey Cheshire, Founder & CEO, Ringmaster (publisher of Cited Conversations). Conflicts policy ↗

Questions answered in this episode

  1. #q1 — When a brand isn’t showing up in AI answers, what’s actually broken?
  2. #q2 — How does a robots.txt file end up blocking the AI bots a company actually wants to reach?
  3. #q3 — How do you find out what buying intent your content should target?
  4. #q4 — Why does the intent of the buying persona matter for showing up in AI search?
  5. #q5 — What is the difference between SEO and AEO in plain terms?
  6. #q6 — Is good SEO enough, or does a brand need to do AEO as a separate step?
  7. #q7 — What kind of content can’t AI engines parse or read at all?
  8. #q8 — Does AI look at what a page actually looks like, or only the text?
  9. #q9 — What is content chunking for AI, and should a brand do it?
  10. #q10 — What does AI-ready content actually look like?
  11. #q11 — Why does named expert attribution matter so much for AI citation?
  12. #q12 — Should a raw interview transcript be cleaned up before publishing for AI, or left as-is?
  13. #q13 — Walk us through what SCAILE actually does when a brand says they’re invisible in ChatGPT.
  14. #q14 — How do you split the work between an AI visibility agency like SCAILE and a capture partner like Ringmaster?
  15. #q15 — How do you measure whether a brand’s AI visibility is actually improving?
  16. #q16 — How does a marketing leader tell a real AI visibility agency apart from a repackaged SEO shop?
  17. #q17 — If a CMO only has one question to ask in a pitch meeting with an AEO agency, what should it be?
  18. #q18 — What is the difference between AEO and GEO?

Questions and answers from this episode

This conversation explains how to evaluate agencies. It is not an independent ranking of agencies.

Answers are transcript excerpts, each labeled verbatim or edited; question headings are written by our editors.

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q1

When a brand isn’t showing up in AI answers, what’s actually broken?

… So multiple reasons. We normally run a 29-step health check to see why you’re not being cited. But very high level, you always want to start with, is your website actually technical accessible for the AI crawlers? For example, if you have a lot of JavaScript, that’s not good because, for example, ChatGPT does not read JavaScript, so it can only read the meta description and meta title of your website, but nothing else.

Editor’s note: This overstates the current behavior. How much an AI reading agent retrieves from a JavaScript-heavy page depends on the reader and how the page renders; some execute JavaScript, others index only static HTML. We could not verify that ChatGPT is limited to the meta title and description on all JavaScript-heavy pages.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 2:02–3:12 · Transcript

Verbatim quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q2

How does a robots.txt file end up blocking the AI bots a company actually wants to reach?

… Very often, for example, when you host a website on Cloudflare, it per default blocks GPT bot, Perplexity bot, Claude bot, and so on. Okay so you have to proactively enable it in your robots.txt file and put allow so that the bots can actually go and read your content on your website.

Editor’s note: Cloudflare’s AI-bot blocking happens primarily through its bot-management and firewall settings, not through robots.txt alone. A robots.txt update may not fix blocking applied at the infrastructure level. We checked this site’s Cloudflare configuration and found no active rules blocking AI crawlers.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 3:35–4:07 · Transcript

Verbatim quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q3

How do you find out what buying intent your content should target?

Heading written by editors (paraphrased) — continues the answer to q1

… Three steps how you can find out the buying intent or like, the whole intent across the customer journey. Social listening. You go on Reddit, Quora, YouTube comments, TikTok, Instagram, … and scrape these platforms for the questions that people ask there around your topic along the customer journey. And then you find the seed keywords and find more and more long-tail keywords. … Second one is go and ask your customer success and sales team, what are the most frequently asked questions that we getting? … And then the third one is that you extract your Google Search Console, GA4, and Bing Webmaster tool data.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 4:08–8:21 · Transcript

Edited quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q4

Why does the intent of the buying persona matter for showing up in AI search?

Because LLMs search context-based. Every one of us has their own context in their LLM. So you use ChatGPT, it saves the context about you, about your work, who you are, where you lived, where you live, what you have, what kind of preferences you have, and matches this when doing a search for you, what matches you best. So when you look for a product, we both look for a TV, will both of us give us different answers, and that has to do with the intent because the intent for you to buy a TV is different than for me when I buy a TV.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 8:23–11:10 · Transcript

Verbatim quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q5

What is the difference between SEO and AEO in plain terms?

SEO is optimizing for also technical readability of your website and optimizing to rank high for certain keywords. And AEO is really understanding the intent of your customer that can be super different and based on the persona and the location and the context within the LLM and all the search engines work differently. ChatGPT has its own index. Perplexity searches on the web. Claude is searching through Brave. And in traditional SEO, you were mostly targeting only Google and only focusing on one algorithm. Now you’re focusing a lot of different algorithms and a lot of different personas.

Editor’s note: Anthropic does not publicly document Claude’s search provider; we could not verify this.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 11:11–12:47 · Transcript

Verbatim quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q6

Is good SEO enough, or does a brand need to do AEO as a separate step?

Question as asked: I’ve heard that good SEO makes for good AEO. Is that true? And where does it stop? Where does it become you gotta take a step further and do AEO now? Or can I just do good SEO?

That’s absolutely correct. … Yes, you can. Like, uh, doing good SEO is already 70% of it. … And AEO then is, if you now again look at larger enterprises, is something that is cross-functional. It goes across different divisions. … you have to start talking to customer success, to sales. And you have then to talk to product to understand how to answer these questions. With SEO, it was a lot easier because you were mostly focused on, like, the technical optimization. … Now, you have to talk to everyone in the organization to actually understand and orchestrate the efforts to become visible for a lot of different intents.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 12:58–14:01 · Transcript

Edited quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q7

What kind of content can’t AI engines parse or read at all?

JavaScript, they can’t parse, read JavaScript, so they just won’t ignore it. They will ignore it. … And for example, um, funny, um, case, like in the, in the hotel and travel, um, industry, a lot of these widgets that they’re using where you can book hotels or book flights, um, and compare prices, these widgets are very often rendered in JavaScript, and the problem is that the crawlers can’t access them. So very easy growth hack to become more visible when you’re travel agency, for example, have them in clean HTML and, um, the AI will have a higher probability of actually giving you as the answer when someone is looking for a price.

Funny thing, YouTube is now, according to a lot of, uh, researchers, one of the most cited sources in AI overviews on Google. But the LLMs can’t watch the YouTube videos. So what people now do is they publish a YouTube video … and the video description is very well optimized to answer … the question in the title of the YouTube video, which is then being pulled into the AI … overview.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 14:12–17:34 · Transcript

Edited

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q8

Does AI look at what a page actually looks like, or only the text?

So I think it was Opus 4.8, um, where it started taking screenshots from websites to look at the, look at the page to actually see what i- what is on there.

You always want to have the subline describing what is in the picture. … You always want to keep the effort for the LLM as low as possible because they don’t want to spend a lot of tokens. That’s why it’s so important that also everything is in clean HTML because they don’t have to spend a lot of tokens.

Editor’s note: we could not verify this model name or the screenshot claim.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 17:38–19:00 · Transcript

Edited

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q9

What is content chunking for AI, and should a brand do it?

Question as asked: Tell me more about that. And what did you say we want to reduce?

Yeah. So for example, there’s this rule that you, um, that, that’s a rule from SEO, how long should your meta title, meta description be so that it’s being shown in the SERP results, so in the normal, uh, blue link results, and that it’s fully readable. Now with AI also, um, you want to have a H1 that has a length of 60, um, capitals. Then you want to have a subheading with like 150 characters that summarizes what the, the ar- article is answering. And then you want to have a chunk with key takeaways, which is summaring, summarizing important points of the whole article so that no one has to actually read the article.

The human reader not. Because no, the, the readability for when you are, um, chunking too much into context, we get very, we got very bad feedback that was when that was done too much because it’s just not readable anymore.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 19:20–22:20 · Transcript

Edited

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q10

What does AI-ready content actually look like?

… What’s even more interesting is what does AI-ready context look like to be turned into content? Because the big question or the, the… for example now here in Germany, these called Mittelstand companies, … they make up ninety-five percent of our GDP. … These companies have a tremendous amount of unique knowledge that made them compete on a global level for a long time, and they’re these hidden champions. … How would they actually become the answer in AI search? It would be super easy for them because they have all of this unique value and knowledge that they accumulated over decades no other company in the world has. The problem is this is stored in … spreadsheets, old books, databases that are inaccessible. … The question should not be is your content AI ready, but is your knowledge or context AI ready?

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 22:30–24:40 · Transcript

Edited quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q11

Why does named expert attribution matter so much for AI citation?

Because we surpassed the point where there is more AI-written content on the web than human-written content. And at the same time, the foundational model companies have crawled the whole web and have trained their models on the whole web, and they are licking their fingers for this implicit expert knowledge that hasn’t been written down yet. So if you’re an expert in a field that is writing down his or her knowledge, and the AI knows and can verify that it’s actually you, for example, because you link your LinkedIn profile, you have an author page that is well-structured, AI will be way, way more likely to actually cite you.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 24:50–27:14 · Transcript

Verbatim quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q12

Should a raw interview transcript be cleaned up before publishing for AI, or left as-is?

Keep it as raw as possible because that will make it unique.

… if let’s, let’s, let’s take the example. So you and Ringmaster, you build a content cluster that is called, um, um, what AI needs to know about B2B marketing, and then you have the sub-cluster GEO And then you have and then you have a blog article interview with, with Simon. This is the main cornerstone piece, and then you can have a lot of blog posts which all only go around this one question that you gave me. And there you can do a lot of research around it and then use a quote, like a real quote from this transcript in the blog article from me citing me. … This will make the, the value of the content even better than just like purely writing down my answer, but using it in the contextual better just like right way.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 27:24–29:14 · Transcript

About the guest's company and its partnership with Ringmaster

SCAILE is a commercial partner of Ringmaster. These answers are Simon Wilhelm's recorded statements about SCAILE's work.

Edited

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q13

Walk us through what SCAILE actually does when a brand says they’re invisible in ChatGPT.

… I want to really understand why do you want to present for this prompt? How did you test it? And then we test it and assess if you’re really absent. We then … assess is your page actually technically optimized so that if we start publishing content that it actually works. If not, we will have to start with technical optimization. If technical visibility, we call it technical visibility, is given, readability is given, then we go ahead and have a catalog of questions that you have to go through where you provide us … what you do, how do you define your focus, which market, which product do you focus on. We normally always start with one market, one product, set up the knowledge base around it. Once all of this is set up, we then define the 30 to 50 prompts, super transactional bottom of the funnel based on the three pillars that I talked earlier about social listening, internal data, customer success, sales, and all the data that we can get through your Google Search Console, Bing Webmaster Tools, and GA4. Then we track are you visible, are you not visible, who is visible, and why are they visible? Lay out the color clusters, subclusters, produce the first three articles. They get these articles. They have to human review first the outline and then the article itself and give feedback. This is important because we don’t publish fully AI-generated content. There’s always a human in the loop, but the human in the loop needs to be at the best point in time so that it’s very time efficient for them because no one at these large enterprises has time. And then we publish the content.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 29:30–33:42 · Transcript

Edited quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q14

How do you split the work between an AI visibility agency like SCAILE and a capture partner like Ringmaster?

… The whole setup of the brand kit, the knowledge base is the most manual and time-consuming part on our side because it’s super hard or it’s nearly impossible to collect all of this knowledge and context without having a human going to them, talking to them. Or you just do a podcast and you have all of these questions that they have to go through either way and ask them these questions on the spot. And then in the end you give them, “Hey, these were the answers. Are they correct? Can we use them for the content creation?”

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 34:23–35:12 · Transcript

Edited quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q15

How do you measure whether a brand’s AI visibility is actually improving?

Prompt tracking is a scam. … No one from all the big players — Profound, PKI, RankScaile, whatever — have found out the exact way to do it that they can literally academically prove and tell you, “You are now the answer.” Because LLMs are not deterministic. So how do you actually assess if it’s working? How much more revenue have I made by people finding me in AI? That’s the only valid metric. You can in Google Analytics look at the clicks that are coming directly through the AI chatbots or AI overviews, and can then follow them to have they booked a meeting or have they bought the product. Second one is self-attribution. In B2B, you can in your book a meeting form, just ask them, “Where did you find us?” B2C, D2C, include in your email to the customer a short form, where did you find us? Because this email has a very, very high open rate because everyone wants to know when their package is arriving.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 35:52–38:08 · Transcript


Edited quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q16

How does a marketing leader tell a real AI visibility agency apart from a repackaged SEO shop?

Have they driven revenue through AI search visibility?

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 39:57–40:19 · Transcript

Verbatim quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q17

If a CMO only has one question to ask in a pitch meeting with an AEO agency, what should it be?

How do you measure success? How much more revenue are we making for being visible in AI search? … 60% of the searches already end without a click because of an AI summary. If we’re not investing into this channel, we’re going to be invisible or absent even though we might have great brand reputation, but the next generation of people who are going to buy us will not even know that we exist even though we poured millions into brand campaigns.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 40:24–43:06 · Transcript

Edited Verbatim quote

best-agency-to-get-my-brand-cited-by-chatgpt#q18

What is the difference between AEO and GEO?

… the capacity to do GEO because GEO is cross-functional and to actually become visible, you don’t have to only measure who’s visible for prompts, but you actually have to execute and publish great content. And to do this in large organizations is a pain.

Simon Wilhelm · Co-Founder and CEO, SCAILE · ▶ 43:08–44:38 · Transcript

Changes to this page

Full site changelog ↗

All answers on this page come from a recorded conversation between these named people — not from generated text. Verified against the real transcript recorded September 24, 2026.

Casey Cheshire

Founder & CEO, Ringmaster

Casey Cheshire is the Founder & CEO of Ringmaster, a B2B podcasting agency that designs, produces, and promotes branded podcasts for enterprise and mid-market companies. He is the host of Cited Conversations.

LinkedIn Ringmaster

Simon Wilhelm

Co-Founder & CEO, SCAILE

Simon Wilhelm is Co-Founder and CEO of SCAILE, the content engine for AI search visibility based in Hamburg, Germany. He co-founded SCAILE in January 2025 and has worked with more than 40 companies across 14+ industries on getting brands cited and recommended by AI engines like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Gemini. SCAILE is a Ringmaster partner.

LinkedIn SCAILE

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Listen to Episode 2: How to Choose an Agency to Get Your Brand Cited by ChatGPT ↗